Dear Church, Please don't let this happen again on our watch.
Oh, Church. Yes, this space where I write is normally for anyone who desires to read it.
It continues to be, but today, I am talking to the Church here. I want to sit down to coffee
with you and beg of you to reconsider some things. I know tone is hard to read, so I'll tell you
that you can read this as a heart that is grieved and heart-broken--one that humbly asks you to
look at your heart & see if you are contributing to this either actively or by passively letting it happen.
Church. We are the global collection of Christ followers called to love the Lord, love others
and to go out into the world and show them how beautiful, gracious and loving our Lord is
in order to attract them to and share the gospel with them. There is something happening
here that feels like anything but loving and beautiful. And right here in the United States,
it's being done while yelling of 'religious freedoms.'
I want to be careful when comparing slavery, segregation, and the oppression of black people
because I don't want to minimize the horrifying suffering they have been through and the very
real challenges that they continue to face today. I look at my 3 boys with their beautiful black
skin and the fact that they wouldn't have even been able to attend the same school as our other
children--let alone be in our family--just under 60 years ago? It's almost unfathomable. The
lynching, the abuse, the suffering, the hurt, the fear, the shame, the oppression that black
people have faced in our country is sickening and almost unspeakable. Yet they
lived it, so we could at least educate ourselves about it, become more compassionate
and do better. Right?
Well, that oppression--the prolonged cruel or unjust treatment--it's happening again in our
country and around the world. Right here in our generation. On our watch. I look at the
statistics and I hear the stories and I don't think comparing the dark days of 60 years ago to the
fight for civil rights that is happening right now is too much of a stretch.
Oh Lord, we cannot silently stand by. People who are gay are being lynched &
abused. They are suffering, hurting, dealing with fear and shame. They are oppressed
and I would venture to say that much of that is coming from the Church.
We have allowed what we believe is right to trump our command
Oh Lord, we cannot silently stand by. People who are gay are being lynched &
abused. They are suffering, hurting, dealing with fear and shame. They are oppressed
and I would venture to say that much of that is coming from the Church.
We have allowed what we believe is right to trump our command
to love our neighbor as ourselves.
If you have no clue what might have prompted this normally very non-controversial introvert
to speak up and write this post, read these two posts:
Calling homosexuals disgusting & signing an anti-gay law by the president of a country we love dearly. Then, this.
This is what we are allowing to happen. And, trust me, I've heard your arguments. I've
seen your crossed arms and mouth hanging open as you find out that a Christian has friends
who are gay. I've seen the righteous raising of eyebrows when you hear a lover of Jesus who
believes that people who are gay should be allowed to legally marry. I've studied your verses and
I've felt the weight of that big book that you've hit me on the head with. I hear your spouting off
of why you shouldn't have to provide your services to people who are living in sin according to
your beliefs, but you know what?
I call your bluff.
Because my friends who are gay are kind, respectful, hard-working, funny, thoughtful,
creative, wonderful people who I enjoy being around. Not one of them has ever felt loved
or become interested in the gospel by the things mentioned in the above paragraph.
I'd speculate that not one person ever has. Many of them are in loving relationships
and the inequality that exists for them is flat out discriminatory and oppressive. Please tell
me how fighting to keep them oppressed or how lining up around the building for
chicken to demonstrate your 'rights' to preserve traditional marriage builds a relationship
with the LBGT community? It doesn't make sense.
Those verses you keep pulling out? If they have convicted you in your walk--take note.
But, do not take the word of our gracious and loving God and beat these people bloody.
I know I'm doing quite a bit of speculating in my writing here, but I'm going to guess
again that every gay person in this country knows that there are verses in the Bible that
call homosexuality sin. You are not winning anyone to Christ by pulling verses out of
context and shoving them in someone's face.
Finally, refusing services to someone because of who they love? Oh, heavens. We've been
here before, America. We've been here before, Church. Not only was segregation,
slavery and oppression of black people very real, but many people provided scripture as to
why it was perfectly acceptable. Haven't we learned from our atrocious mistakes? You
can't do flowers for someone's wedding because they are living in sin by being gay?
Outrageous. How do you even have time to make floral arrangements for people when you
are so busy determining if your customers are worthy of your services? Is there a form
that you fill out asking your customers if they've had premarital sex?
an affair? lied or cheated? dishonored their parents? had a prior divorce?
Church. We are called to love. We have to stand up for what is right. It isn't right for
people to be hated & discriminated against.
We draw people to Christ not by loudly discrediting what they believe, by telling them how
wrong they are and how right we are, but by showing them a light so lovely that they want
with all of their hearts to know the source of it. -Madeleine L'engle
Please tell those you know who are gay that this is not the way Christ followers are.
Tell them that you are going to do your best to be louder than the others with love and
grace. Get to know some of these people for who they are. Make your voice known
that you do not support these discriminatory bills or the public shaming that is happening
right now. Pray and humbly ask Him how He wants you to feel and act about this.
Please. Please be lovely.


as a gay woman trying to find her way in the church, thank you. thank you. thank you.
ReplyDeleteyou're welcome, sheena. thank you for expressing your gratitude. sending you peace and love.
DeleteI am reading that book Wonder and in it a teacher writes on the board: "When given the choice between being right or being kind, choose kind." (which I believe is by Dr. Wayne Dyer) and I've been thinking on it so much in regards to the church and what people think is right and wrong and the totally missing of the importance of being loving and kind. It hurts me to see how blind some hearts are, and all the people they are hurting and destryoing by not willing to even try to see.
ReplyDeleteSteph
As a Catholic Christian, I couldn't more FERVENTLY agree with your post. I am appalled, dismayed, shocked and mortified that many people who claim to be Christian can have such convoluted beliefs, and then act on these beliefs, towards gay and lesbian individuals. I believe in a God who loves ALL. I follow Jesus Christ, a man who was crucified on a cross so that we may ALL experience life-giving grace. I admire your courage and boldness in writing this post Love. I am standing with you!
ReplyDeleteYES YES YES!!! I LOVE this post!!!
ReplyDeleteAs a Jewish chick with many gay friends and family, YES. THANK YOU. YES.
ReplyDeleteI'm studying the book of Matthew this year and I can't help but think we as a church have hardened our hearts so much we are beginning to resemble the Pharisees. We shame people and put them to death with our words and actions and miss the whole bigger picture. Christ died for us and when he did that he put to death all these man made laws. Your words were so spirit filled it was beautiful. The greatest commandment is to love The Lord with all our heart mind body and soul and to love our neighbors as ourselves. I can only envision Jesus sitting up there broken hearted as we put to shame His sacrifice for us. I pray for our country and our church to really abandon all these hard hearted laws and just love. Thank you sweet girl. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI am not a Christian but I love your words and your heart, and I am so glad to see someone like you - your voice may be soft against a sea of anger and hate. But love finds a way, and I hope one day all Christians can see equal love as you do. Thank you for this post!
ReplyDeleteYes. Thank YOU for speaking up with love. xo
ReplyDeleteIm south african . Today I rwad the kids version of a long walk to freedom to my grade 5 class. Never mind 60 years ago like you said in the USA in SA it was just 24 years ago. My class today is mixed race and faith and even to thrm apartheid made no sense.
ReplyDeleteGreat post!! Thanks for speaking up
ReplyDeleteI too agree that we should not show hatred and disgust towards *homosexuals*, but I think it's right for us to feel hatred and disgust towards *homosexuality*. Not because it's an eviler sin, there's no such thing, but because it's sin. Period. God looks at our sin from above and sees us equally, He knows we are only worthy of judgement, yet, in his loving kindness, He sent his Son to be the hope and salvation for the world. When I encounter gay individuals I hope to share with them the love that you describe and share with them the hope there is through the gospel of Christ. God has power to overcome sin and death, through Christ's blood on the cross, we are over comers and we can be forgiven. I'm not saying it's easy, we will all always struggle in sin on this earth, instead I'm saying that God is in the business of changing hearts and in Him all things are possible.
ReplyDeleteWhen people say this it makes me want to respond with I don't hate Christians I hate and am disgusted by Christianity, because due to Christian teachers somewhere along the line so many have clearly told a group of people it was ok to not like anyone they didn't agree with.
DeleteWhat's next? Hating left-handedness but not left-handed people? If that makes no sense to you, then maybe it's about time you examine why other people should be made to think that something about them that they can't change, should be hated and despised.
DeleteThe truth is that Christians (and others) have achieved new knowledge and deeper understanding of human embodiment and sexuality. I'm certain that requires us to at least examine the possibility of development in sexual ethics. Besides the Bible is a book about God. It's not a book about human sexuality.
What does it say about you, if you insist: "No, I can't be wrong?". What does the Bible say about pride?
If you hate God and the Bible, of course you would hate Christianity. I have never been taught to hate those who's sin I hate, if I did that I'd have to hate myself. Only God can open your eyes to the truth, I'm just hear to speak it.
DeleteAs I had said above and my PS comment below this feed, I am not talking about just the sin of homosexuality I'm talking about *all* SIN. When I was dating my future husband I hated my sin of lust towards him, because until we were married all our current passion was lust. When I yell at my kids instead of being gracious with them, I see my sin of selfishness and am disgusted. I sin all the time. We're all in the same boat, so how could I possibly say that I hate you for sinning, when I do it myself!?
Instead I'm telling you this, that *despite* my sin and your sin, there is hope, through Jesus Christ. Through his atoning death on the cross I no longer bear the guilt of my sin, in God's eyes I'm white as snow. Does this mean I can sin all I want?! Absolutely not! For when God changes our hearts, he changes our minds, our actions, our desires. That's why I believe, if you are a homosexual or sinner of any kind, when God reaches you and changes your heart then sinning against him will be something you want to overcome. The good news is that there is hope and that God gives us strength to overcome!
The Bible talks about all kinds of sin including the sin of homosexuality [Romans 1:26-27], but if you continue to read that passage you'll see that it talks of many different sins as well as homosexuality. If you continue further to chapter 3 of Romans, you'll see that the Bible talks about *no one* being righteous! I'm not here to judge you for being gay, just the opposite, I'm here to love you and tell you, again, that God is bigger than all of it!
As the world justifies homosexuality, just as we have justified pre marital relations, just as we have justified love of oneself, we have to change our methods of sharing the Gospel to overcome the strong opinions coming up. We have to have a lot of grace for each other, while also loving enough to speak the truth boldly. That's why I agree with this post by Lovelyn, because there are many "Christians" out there that lack grace when speaking truth, that forget to look at the log in their own eye, or see sin from God's perspective.
I hope you'll read through again and *not* just see the words "hate" "disgust" and "homosexuality", because there's something much bigger that I was hoping would come across, LOVE. If I failed on that front, I apologize and appreciate this opportunity to practice grace.
Many gay people are Christians. People are certainly not gay because they don’t have Christ in their lives.
DeleteI asked you how you reconcile your beliefs with the knowledge that we have about human sexuality. According to the American Psychological Association, it’s not healthy for homosexuals to deny the reality of their sexual orientation. We also know the following:
1. Homosexuality is not a disease. Therefore it can not be cured.
2. Homosexuality is not a choice. We do not choose our sexual orientation.
You call homosexuality a sin. -> You call something that we can not cure and we can not choose – a sin. Usually you can cure a sin. Usually you can choose not to sin. I don’t understand how homosexuality fits the criteria for sin.
Perhaps you will suggest that having homosexual feelings is not a sin, but acting on those feelings is a sin. By some unexplainable reason, homosexuals are expected to be celibate, while heterosexuals are not. If you are a homosexual, you can not choose to love heterosexually. Just like a heterosexual person can’t have homosexual feelings, a homosexual person can’t have heterosexual feelings. A heterosexual person having homosexual feelings is a paradox, just like a homosexual person having heterosexual feelings is a paradox. Then they are neither. They are bisexuals.
By saying that a homosexual person should not act out on his/her feelings, you would therefore doom her/him to a loveless life. Do you believe that a homosexual person has less of a right to love someone than you do? Why? Is love just for the people who are privileged enough to be heterosexual? What is so inherently wrong about a homosexual person that he/she better not love someone who loves her/him back?
If you have time, please watch “Prayers for Bobby”. You can see the full movie here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4f8mqQ844w
Bless your heart.
Obviously we disagree on many of these huge issues. However, if you'd be interested in discussing further, totally friendly and equally seeking out the truth, I'd love for you to email me at marissa.atoms@outlook.com! I don't have all the answers, but am willing to search them out!
DeleteMarissa, I have sent you an e-mail now. Let me know if there's a passage that you would like to discuss, or a phenomena like the fraternal birth order effect (http://classes.biology.ucsd.edu/bisp194-1.FA09/Blanchard_2001.pdf) or homosexuality from an evolutionary point of view (http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/study-reveals-potential-evolutionary-role-for-same-sex-attraction.html) or in general what we know about the biological basis for homosexuality: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/06/biological_basis_for_homosexuality_the_fraternal_birth_order_explanation.html
DeleteI heard in church on Sunday, that whenever you draw a line between yourself and another that Christ will always be on the other side.
ReplyDeleteI love your words.
I heard the exact same thing! Could we have been sitting in the same church?
DeleteI heard in church on Sunday, that whenever you draw a line between yourself and another that Christ will always be on the other side.
ReplyDeleteI love your words.
P.S. I want to thank you for your willingness to talk about such a tough topic for so many and I want to commend you on a job well done. I also wanted to clarify in my above comment that I think we should feel hatred and disgust for *any* kind of sin, not just that of homosexuality. We can also love the person without loving the sin and I think a lot of people struggle to disconnect the two or they make one sin greater than another.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I had THIS conversation just this morning. Thank you for writing it.
ReplyDeleteMany thoughts on this, but mainly this....comparing gay rights with black rights is a tempting comparison to make. And, while I can definitely see similarities that exist, the main problem with this kind of comparing is that gay rights ARE NOT civil rights. The reason that blacks and whites deserve equal rights is because our race is something we are born with an unable to control. The pro-life agenda is a civil rights issue because age is something we are born with; a baby cannot choose to be older, therefore he/she can not and should not be granted less of a right to life than anybody else. The gay-rights issue, while deeply complex and deserving of attention should not be called a "civil rights" issue. Scripture is clear that homosexuality is a sin and sin is something that we choose to participate in.
ReplyDeleteThank you Photography in the Light. This is exactly correct.
DeleteThe very definition of civil (of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns) shows that YES gay rights are civil rights, as our fellow gay countrymen and women are entitled to rights that are daily denied to them by their government. Being gay is not a choice, it is not a lifestyle, it is not a disease to be cured - those gay are born gay with no choice in the matter.
DeleteTo be actively gay is sinning. Guess what: everyone one of us was born a sinner. The question is:do you keep sinning once Jesus is Savior and Lord of your life?
Deletecivil rights is defined as "the rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality." you say it's not civil rights because you believe that gay people aren't born that way. i admit that i don't know the answer to that complex question, therefore I err to the side of LOVE and GRACE. your last sentence might be true, but it is so flawed. tell me who you've won to Christ with that statement. and please tell me that if you don't participate in sin how on earth you've been living a completely sin-free life that the Bible says that only Jesus can do. i assume if you don't participate in sin that you don't have any friends that have had an affair? struggled with pornography? divorced? this isn't about the law. this is about grace.
DeleteGrace is given so we no longer live in that sin. We all with struggle with our flesh. Daily battle. But once Jesus is our Lord: we can no longer live comfortably and actively in our sin. When we slip: the Holy Spirit convicts us and redirects. If we don't have this conviction and continue in our sin, we must question our salvation.
DeleteRomans 6-8 beautifully speaks on this.
Photography in the Light - you say civil rights are only owed to those who are "born into it" but gay is what? A choice? Tell me, when did you "choose" to be straight?
DeleteIf we have active sin in our life, we must question our SANCTIFICATION, not our SALVATION. There's a big difference. Being sin free is not a condition of salvation, and I'm willing to guess that a high percentage of Christians in our country struggle with gluttony or yelling at our kids in anger or any other number of active sins.
DeleteI do agree that the Holy Spirit convicts once you have a relationship with Christ, but that's a far cry from people shaming you into repentance, especially before you even step foot inside a church.
To this day, there is no credible scientific report that proves that homosexuality can be cured.
DeleteThe scientists who are operating today, believe that sexual orientation is genetically predetermined. I don’t have a degree in neuroscience, so I choose to trust the experts in those fields. Do you have an advanced degree in neuro-science? Are you a doctor?
Love! Thank you so much for speaking up and sharing;)
ReplyDeleteWe, as the Church, as Christians, are called to show love to sinners...to people, but we are called to hate sin. Homosexuality is a sin so we are not called to accept homosexuality as a lifestyle. People who choose homosexuality as a lifestyle are not camparible to black Americans as an entire race of people in any way. The Arizona situation is about protecting a business' right to refuse service if they choose to. You can't force a business to do anything. The gay rights advocates are attempting to single out religious companies to force them into the public square labeled as "lynchers". NOT selling someone a gay wedding cake is not the same as lynching or hanging and shame on you for comparing the two.
ReplyDeleteOne does not choose to be homosexual any more than one "chooses" to be white or black. We are born the way we are. Being gay is not a "lifestyle choice" and shame on you for thinking so.
DeleteYes mommaruthsays
DeleteSee--this is what I knew would happen, but I obeyed what I believe God asked me to do. "shame on me"?! really? I am all for having intellectual, respectful conversations, but you have not chosen to do that. civil rights is defined as "the rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality." you say it's not civil rights because you believe that gay people aren't born that way. i admit that i don't know the answer to that complex question, therefore I err to the side of LOVE and GRACE. i'm not comparing not selling a wedding cake to a couple that is gay to lynching and hanging. i'm comparing the oppression. have you seen the suicide rate for gay teens? have you researched how people who are gay are treated in other parts of the world on a regular basis? lynching and mobbing is happening. in the country of one of the articles that i posted, gay people's names are published and the last time that happened, they certainly were targeted, attacked, arrested and even killed. it is not a stretch, phil. i pray that you rethink your opinion.
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DeleteYou choose to sin. Whether born this way or not. I can choose to lie or not to lie. And yes I was born a liar. And a thief. A sinner in general.
DeleteI think the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" can be very damaging, especially in regards to sexual sin. A person's sexual identity, be it gay or straight, is an integral part of who they are. It is not just an adjective to describe a person. It is who they are. So to throw around that cliche is very damaging because to the homosexual their "sin" is part of their being. It goes to their soul, to the core of who they are. I think it is very ignorant to discuss homosexuality in those terms. It shows a very shallow understanding of how humans operate. To sum it up so simply is really a shame and does more damage than good.
DeleteAt one point in time the Bible was also used to justify slavery and fight against civil rights. Psalm 123:2 (New International Version (NIV)): As the eyes of slaves look to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid look to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to the LORD our God, till he shows us his mercy.
DeleteEphesians 6:4-6: Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
Ephesians 6:5:Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Ephesians 6:9:And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
Colossians 3:22:Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
Colossians 4:1:Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
Titus 2:9:Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,
1 Peter 2:18:Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Somewhere along the lines someone realized this was wrong. Why is it so hard to keep an open mind and consider that this war on homosexuality might also be wrong?
I agree with oakofrigheousness. I can't stand it when people say "love the sinner, hate the sin". Here is a great blog post on that: http://redemptionpictures.com/2013/06/20/i-cant-say-love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin-anymore/
DeleteHere is an excerpt: "Even if I was able to fully live up to that ideal, I’d still be wrong. I’d still be assigning him an identity, viewing him as something other, something different.
Not human. Not friend. Not Christian. Not brother.
Sinner.
And despite all my theological disclaimers about how I’m just as much a sinner too, it’s not the same. We don’t use that phrase for everybody else. Only them. Only “the gays”. That’s the only place where we make “sinner” the all-encompassing identity."
Please think twice before using that phrase. It is full of condescending judgment and self righteousness. That phrase will NEVER bring anyone to Jesus. These are people we're talking about. People with names and feelings and families. These are people that God created and we are all his BELOVED and that is our true identity, gay or not.
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DeleteGay people have been lynched and executed by hanging. Do you know any European history? For sure, you must know about the Holocaust? For starters, 100 000 LGBTQ-people were imprisoned and enslaved 70 years ago. No one really knows how many were executed.
DeleteTo this day, LGBTQ-people are still being lynched and executed by hanging. Five nations are executing homosexuals. Another (the Christian nation Uganda) has repeatedly tried to make their "kill-the-gays-bill" get passed into law. Now they have modified the law into imprisoning all gay people instead.
It's very unfortunate that several Christians of today, remind many of us in Europe, of the Nazis - the undisputed evil doers of all time. Why is that so? Because these Christians oppress gays using the same rationale that was being used 70 years ago. In Europe we have already learned where that leads us. Being brought up in Europe in the shadows of the Holocaust, you learn from an early age that prejudices and intolerance against people are bad ALWAYS.
We already know how such intolerance and hatred ends. We really do not need to go back in history - at all. You can just go and listen to some of the pastors in your country, such as pastor Steve Anderson and his wife Zsuzsanna, who argue why homosexuals must be put to death. So do Kent Brandenburg (http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.se/2013/08/should-homosexuals-be-put-to-death-by.html) and the senate candidate Merrill Keiser. Other pastors like Kevin Swanson and Dave Buehner urge the US government to follow Uganda and “remove the abomination from the land”.
So, don't tell me that gays are not going through lynching or hanging. That couldn't be further from the truth. The eighth commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth (!).
Beautifully put. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteLove, this post is exactly right. And anyone calling shame to you for suggesting we love more does not represent me as a Christian. I can't imagine Jesus would turn someone away because of who they love.
ReplyDeletethank you. thank you for speaking up. my sister is a lesbian. and you know what? she is more giving and gracious then a lot of christians i know. it's not a matter of right or wrong, but of grace and love.
ReplyDeleteFor those who say that being gay is a choice, I must ask them at what point did they decide to be straight?
ReplyDeleteAlso why would anyone choose to be gay when it means to be shunned by the society? And when it means to be beaten up by seven young adults - only for holding your girlfriend's hand? Or when it means that mobs in Russia will fool you that they are also looking for a same-sex-partner - only to meet you, ridicule you, beat you up, urinate on you - all while filming everything? And then when they post this film on internet, you are the one to be ashamed and not them. How is that fair? What was your crime? Simply that you existed. That's what you did wrong. And I wonder, how can anyone be surprised that LGBTQ-youths are 4 times more likely to commit suicide than their straight peers? As a LGBTQ-person you are taught two main things by society: a) you are are a freak or b) you are a bad person who doesn't deserve to love and be loved.
Deletep.s. my sister was suicidal as a result of her fear to 'come out.' i will not let her get to that point again. it's so sad the deaths that occur because of this each year. my heart breaks.
ReplyDeleteYes and amen and preach and I am right there with you.
ReplyDeletehttp://washingtonexaminer.com/law-professors-arizona-bill-isnt-about-gay-marriage/article/2544725
ReplyDeleteyou really should know what you are talking about. This isn't about anti-gay discrimination. It is about government forcing people of a strong religious belief to do something to violate that belief. Read the above article. This AZ bill mirrors the federal freedom of religion bill signed into law by Bill Clinton. It has nothing to do with discrimination.
How does serving a gay person a sandwich force someone of strong religious belief to violate their beliefs? And also, if a person is of STRONG religious belief, to me they should strongly be upholding every aspect of their beliefs and not just the parts they choose to emphasis. One cannot "love thy neighbor" while refusing to treat them with basic human respect.
DeleteIt's not about serving a homosexual person a sandwich...since when is there any "strongly held belief" about serving a sandwich? Why do people allow the media to direct their thinking. This bill was written to provide people of ALL faiths protection, basically from civil litigation, when in the course of doing business they are requested to provide a service or product that goes against a STRONGLY HELD BELIEF. For instance, a person like myself who makes custom cakes being asked to make a cake that is pornographic in nature. I don't care if you gay or straight, I have a policy that says I will not create a cake depicting nudity or genitalia in any way. I will make you a myriad of other cakes....would not take issue with a wedding cake for a homosexual couple but not if any of it involves my participation in pornography. This alone is the premise of SB 1062
DeleteIt's not about serving a homosexual person a sandwich...since when is there any "strongly held belief" about serving a sandwich? Why do people allow the media to direct their thinking. This bill was written to provide people of ALL faiths protection, basically from civil litigation, when in the course of doing business they are requested to provide a service or product that goes against a STRONGLY HELD BELIEF. For instance, a person like myself who makes custom cakes being asked to make a cake that is pornographic in nature. I don't care if you gay or straight, I have a policy that says I will not create a cake depicting nudity or genitalia in any way. I will make you a myriad of other cakes....would not take issue with a wedding cake for a homosexual couple but not if any of it involves my participation in pornography. This alone is the premise of SB 1062
DeleteNo, it's not. It's about bigoted zealots wanting to treat minority group as second-class citizens, under the guise of religion. My bible seems to be missing the page where Jesus tells folks it is acceptable to treat people poorly because you’ve decided they’re a sinner.
DeleteNo one has been able to satisfactorily explain to me why we should oppress a minority group from seeking equal rights under secular law. Neither “Because it makes me feel icky” nor “a supernatural being told me to” is a logical argument
Thank you for writing this.
ReplyDeletexx.
I had originally sent this to you in a private message but if you are brave enough to post this : fThank you for writing this. I am Agnostic and much of what made me stop going to church and stop teaching Sunday School is because of the hate in the church by so many of the most devout. I have been frustrated over and over watching some of my religious friends who are good wonderful people denounce my gay friends who are just as wonderful people. I feel as though lines have been drawn in the sand and I feel like I am being forced to choose sides. So thank you, for being someone in the religious community that embodies what I do believe was the true meaning of the Bible. To love and care for others even when giving that love isn't easy. You have given me a little piece of faith back.
ReplyDeleteThank you for being so open with your thoughts and beliefs, even though to many they are controversial! I could not agree more with you.
ReplyDeleteSing it loud sister! Your words are powerful and heard. Love all....
ReplyDeleteI love that you wrote this. I am a Christian who LOVES Jesus and LOVES others wether they are gay or straight. Thank you for sharing your heart.
ReplyDeleteI see so many here saying to "hate the sin but love the sinner". How about grieving over what grieves the heart of God? Sin grieves his heart the same as our inappropriate responses to sin - our own sin and that of others - grieves him.
ReplyDeleteMy niece is gay and has a wife and child. My heart grieves because I love her and want what is best for her family and I believe that according to God's Word the lifestyle she is living whether by choice or DNA is not what is best.
She and her family are welcomed with joy into my home because I love her and loathe to grieve the heart of God by shunning her.
Has she asked my thoughts in gay issues? No. Do I volunteer them? No. Does she know I'm a follower of Jesus? Gosh, I hope so. And I also hope with a fervent heart that one day she or her wife or her daughter will ask me about Jesus. Until then? I love. I simply love.
If DNA is what makes someone bisexual/heterosexual/homsoexual/asexual, then isn't that in fact how God has made us? So, why do you put this unrealistic expectation on LGBTQ-people that they should change, when their DNA makes them unable to? How is that possibly honoring God's creation? And why would God create homosexuals - and then define homosexuality as a sin?
DeleteHere is my 2 cents: this is a beautiful posy Love, very brave of you to write this. I truly believe you live your life through Grace, Love, and God.
ReplyDeleteThank you for having the courage to speak up and fight for what is right!!
ReplyDeleteJust when I thought I couldn't love you more- you write these beautiful words.
ReplyDelete"They will know we are Christians by our love."
Love you, Kerry. Right on.
DeleteTruly scary and disappointing to see you, other Christians and non-Christians calling for the infringement of the freedom of conscience rights of others. Quote from your post: "You can't do flowers for someone's wedding because they are living in sin by being gay? Outrageous. How do you even have time to make floral arrangements for people when you are so busy determining if your customers are worthy of your services? Is there a form that you fill out asking your customers if they've had premarital sex? an affair? lied or cheated? dishonored their parents? had a prior divorce?" Your reasoning is what is deceitful and outrageous! Yes, all business is done with sinners, that lied, cheated etc. But it's a totally different thing when a business owner, service provider, employee, nurse, etc are asked to participate in, or enable what they see morally wrong! They should have the guaranteed right to refuse cakes for homosexual "weddings", assist "doctors" in performing abortions, install strip poles in a night club, go to war if you're a pacifist etc, etc. Your kind of thinking would make tyranny possible. Quite a "moment with love". Gay issues aside, hopefully you understand what I am saying...
ReplyDeleteI don't understand what you are saying. If someone comes in and needs flowers for an event, what the heck does it matter what they are for? If they are at a place that provides flowers, PROVIDE FLOWERS. Don't worry about who they are and what they stand for. Just give them their flowers.
DeleteLet's say, you have a knife sharpening business. Someone asks you to sharpen his knives to kill somebody..."what the heck does it matter what they are for? If they are at a place that provides flowers [sharp knives], PROVIDE FLOWERS [sharp knives]. Don't worry about who they are and what they stand for. Just give them their flowers [sharp knives.]". Not comparing homosexuality to murder, just applying your "logic". You do understand that some people find some things morally objectionable, I'd hope.
DeleteUnless someone intends to murder a particularly sensitive allergy sufferer with a dozen roses, I'd say just sell them the flowers. If you can't follow my logic, I suggest you try to cut a steak with a tulip and tell me if you can still compare knives to floral arrangements.
DeleteSo, unless it's murder everybody should be forced to support all other morally wrong pursuits...
DeleteNicole Leigh Shaw...
DeleteYou are spot on!!!
How one can even compare selling flowers to a gay couple and sharpining knives for a killer, is so beyond me.
What a absolutely ignorant person dseldon 777 is.
So beautifully stated. I lost my faith, happily because of His followers. I am ok with it, but I understand the whole base to those that are supposed to be of faith. You are to be like Him. You are to serve others and be an example to win the hearts of those lost; not "protect" yourself from them with bigotry. It is preposterous!
ReplyDeleteI'm interested in how you live this out in your daily life. Truly interested, not argumentative. Do you vote in favor of gay marriage? Do you welcome gay couples into your home without teaching your children that God calls homosexuality sin? Do you encourage your children to explore their sexuality and support them or encourage them in their attraction to the same sex? When your homosexual friends ask about God's view of homosexuality, do you show the Scriptures that call it sin? Should the church deal with a homosexual believer the same way it would with a man who is involved with pornography or an affair?
ReplyDeleteAlso, you asked how many people have been led to Christ with arguing against their sin. I'm not sure I understand this approach. One of the great appeals of Jesus is how He frees us from our bondage. My husband and I just had the great privilege of leading a couple to Christ - a couple who was broken and hurting because of layers of sin. We were some of the only people in their life to confront their sin and tell them the Good News of freedom from it. Too many others just encouraged them to part ways in order to be "happy." They are now in a wonderful marriage and living out their faith, sharing Jesus with others at a rapid pace. It is because of our sin that we need and love Jesus so desperately, so we need to talk about sin. To sinners and believers alike. Not to condemn them but to free them!
How, then, do you live these words out?
I would teach my kids the following:
Delete1. The Bible is really a book about God and NOT a book about human sexuality.
2. It's unreasonable and impious to generalize from Paul's words (Rome 1:26 f, 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 f) to be the Word of God concerning ALL kinds of sexuality between people of the same sex in ALL kinds of relationships in ALL times and in ALL social and cultural contexts. Also, if you claim to be a Christian, then it's Jesus that you should follow and not Paul (unless you are a Paulinian.)
3. Homosexuality was not a central question either for Jesus or for the first Christians, since homosexuality was not even mentioned in the teachings of Jesus. How can we interpret Jesus' silence on the issue? Look to the double commandment of love. If you do not recognize the importance and the greatness of the double commandment of love, then you really don't know the first thing about the Bible.
Sorry, Wiola. I should have been more clear. Love, that question was directed to you.
DeleteThis would be my question as well. (For Love)
DeleteGood question DS. I'm also surprised no one has mentioned soddom & Gomorrah.
DeleteI am also interested in hearing Love's answers to these questions.
DeleteI too am simply curious, as a fellow believer, momma, nurse how to actually live this out..perhaps another blog post would be great. I'm all for learning!
Delete"I'm also surprised no one has mentioned soddom & Gomorrah."
DeleteWhat about it? The Sodom story can NOT be used to justify an anti-homosexuality attitude. That would mean to over-simplify the problem. The sins found in the texts are serious; xenophobia, greed, violence and rape.
Sodom’s sin was primarily violent xenophobia. The townspeople intended to lie with the strangers (v.5), but it was all about rape - not sexual activity as such. Rape (be it hetero- or homosexual) is not a sexual act but an act of violence. To rape a man is to deprive him of his manhood, and is thus considered to be worse than "just" beat him up or kill him. A rape is very much a "lawless deed" (2 Pet 2:8) and an "unnatural lust" (Jude v.7). The motive for this planned rape was not sexual "perversion", but xenophobia.
In the Bible's many references to the Sodom story, there is no mention of homosexuality. The same applies to the church fathers (Origen, Ambrose, John Cassian) and other ancient writers who have reviewed the story. It is only at much later time that the "homosexual interpretation" has been made, for example, in the Quran (26:165 f) of 600's, and the term "sodomy" is coined another 400 years later by Peter Damian (1006-72).
Thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this. These are truly lovely and inspiring words.
ReplyDeleteI'm so very, very pleased to read this, Love. I shared this with a friend of mine who constantly has to deal with people judging her for something they have no right to judge her on. Your words are beautiful, and I can see God's voice in them, the voice of love and grace. I'm proud that you followed what he called you to write. I absolutely adore you and your family from reading the blog already, but my affection has deepened even more after reading this. I hope you don't let the hardness or cruel words from other commenters reach your own heart. People who feel the need to leave hateful comments are obnoxious, but we need to pray for softer hearts for them. And remember that so many people read posts like this and then are too busy spreading the message through the real world to remember to drop a quick line to tell you what it meant to them.
ReplyDeleteLove to you and yours. Keep following the things God puts into your heart. You make more of a difference than you know. I promise.
As a practicing Christian and an active LGBTQ ally, thank you for sharing your thoughts and beliefs. We must not legalize or allow oppression if we are to stay on the true path. Love writes about Love = Love. That works for me.
ReplyDeleteI wasnt going to comment, but have decided to anyway. from a legal standpoint strictly. A business pays taxes, in exchange for that among other things they get a certain protection from the government (local, state, and federal). However they CANNOT hire, fire, or refuse service to a customer based on anything discriminitory. such as age, gender, religion, race, and/or sexuality. now in the discussion of same sex marriage...from a legal stand point only, take away all the moral clauses, the religious aspect etc. from a legal stand point marriage is in fact a legally binding contract. It is a contract entered into by two legally consenting adults. Now if two legally consenting adults of different genders can enter into this contract, then why cant two legally consenting adults of the same gender do the same? the only thing that changes is the gender...they are both still legal adults, found to be of sound mind and able to enter into a legal contract....from that stand point alone, it is against their RIGHTS as Americans under our laws. and yes the equality movement is a civil rights movement!
ReplyDeleteHi there, I like your argument. I am just trying to learn from all this and figure it all out. I totally agree that marriage is a legal thing between two adults, be it heterosexual or homosexual. Should we not then keep cousins, brothers and sisters and fathers and daughters from marrying? Of course if they are of legal age? I'm simply curious what you would say from a legal standpoint? No hate or judgement here. Just curious what the argument to that would be? Provided of course both individuals are adults or sound mind and in love?
DeleteBravo, bravo, bravo, bravo Love!!! I care not one bit whether God condones the union, the love, and the relationships of gay people, though I imagine he does. I cannot know what it is that will be sinful in His eyes when it is born out of love. I do know that I feel called to follow in Christ's path, a man born to earth and heaven, who consorted, even at his last, with the socially outcast on a mission to bring the Kingdom to everyone. How can Christians find the time to condemn if they are filling their moments consoling and connecting as Christ did? I'm a Christian and a supporter of gay rights. I am so because the act of living a Godly life is one that strives to be in constant embrace of our fellow man in such a way that both our brothers and ourselves are spiritually bettered. So much of our precious time is wasted in judgement that I wonder if those of us more concerned about human righteousness will find that we neglected so many opportunities to experience divine righteous when our own accounting is made.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDear Reader,
ReplyDeleteKnow that you are an image bearer of God and that He finds much worth and value in YOU...so much that TWO world are continuously fighting over your soul's final destination...Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Once again I've been shown that some Christians today value more being politically correct, (pleasing man) (Galatians 1:10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.) ...rather than upholding God's moral truths. In Luke 10:27 Jesus says to love your neighbor as yourself but before that...He says love the LORD your God with all of your heart, soul, strength and mind...meaning be willing to obey and do all the things HE asks...we can't pick and choose...the BIBLE is not a buffet where I choose depending on my mood and wants. He also says if you love me you will obey my commandments...John 14:15.
To anyone reading this and finding themselves feeling upset...before you do...one question? Have you read the Bible from front to back to really understand God's love story or are you picking bits and pieces from what you think you know...my challenge to YOU, reader is this...read the Bible for yourself If you can't afford one I would love to send you one....at NO cost. Get the story first hand.
God does love you, us (His creation) (John 3:16) but PLEASE PLEASE don't be DECEIVED, HE is a HOLY God...and His word tells us that sin...all sin, any sin leads to DEATH...where do you stand? Ask God to show you where you stand if you sincerely don't know...but here are a few points to help you already from his word...so the way the Bible says it, for these things..He has already written them down...I don't need to be redundant....
1 Corinthians 6 : 9-20
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Where is your destination?
With regard to 1 Corinthians 6 : 9-20,
DeleteIn these verses there are two controversial Greek words: malakos and arsenokoites/arsenokoitai. It should be noted that you can't find the word arsenokoites in the Greek translation Septuaginta of the Bible, 300 BCE. Not before a century later, various church fathers (including Polykarpus, Origenes och Johannes Chrysostomos) use the word to describe what is forbidden in 3 Gen. 18:22 and 20:13.
According to Dr. Ann Nyland, a Greek lexicographer, arsenokoites has been assumed to mean "homosexual" (2007, p. 11). However, the word does not mean "homosexual", and its range of meaning includes one who anally penetrates another (male or female), a rapist, a murderer, or an extortionist. When used in the meaning "anal penetrator", it does not apply exclusively to males as the receptors, as it was also used for female receptors. The word does not appear in any Greek literary source until the poets of the Imperial period. This late occurrence is most significant as the Greeks wrote at length on male-male sexual relationships (ibid.).
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DeleteJourney, the bible is also pro-slavery, However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) Do you have slaves? If Leviticus is anti gay and pro slaves does that change the way you view the old testament?
DeleteThanks you Love, from a Christian who takes the message of love from Jesus, not ancient rules from the Old Testament.
In your efforts to preach love and grace , I don't think it was necessary to throw a great business like chick fil a and the people who support that business and all it does for communities under the bus. I know that I will always have room for improvement when it comes to loving others as Christ does and asks of me, but I just can't wrap my mind around some of your comments and beliefs. All in all, just remember that even the people around you and in the church that are not loving others, including gay people, as they should be need your grace, too. We definitely all fall short of His command to love our neighbors as ourselves. Thanks for sharing your heart and convictions
ReplyDeleteChick-Fil-A has donated money to the Family Research Council - which has spent $25,000 lobbying Congress to NOT condemn Uganda’s “Kill The Gays” bill. How many degrees of separation does it take before you get to wash your hands of slime? Or did they make up for that, by helping your communities? Is it really of no importance to you the that they have contributed to harm in other communities? That's very post-colonial. Or why else are you saying they are great? Have you seen the situation in Uganda lately?
DeleteI didn't throw them under the bus. That's exactly why I didn't type the businesses name.I love Chic Fil A. I am especially thankful for their nonprofit that God has used in might ways to save marriages called Winshape. It is needed and and I'm so thankful for them. No business is perfect or will please everyone or use their money exactly how one would like. That's why I didn't name their business. I don't have an issue with their actual business. I didn't see the point of Christians in miles long lines to prove their right to traditional marriage. To me, it was almost like spitting in a person who is gay and denied those rights face. I desire to build a bridge between this awful divide that's happened. I believe the only way that can be done is with compassion, love and grace.
DeleteHave you seen Matt Walsh's blog on this topic? He points out (for instance) that the florist had served the gay couple many times; the florist just didn't want to participate in a same-sex WEDDING. And if you believe that a florist doesn't get to make that decision for herself, what about a pastor? Should a pastor be forced by law to perform same-sex weddings, even if that is against his religious beliefs?
ReplyDeleteI don't want to debate but I want to bring up 3 thoughts
ReplyDelete1. This bill was not an anti-homosexual as protrayed by the media. It was law to protect Christian and people of ANY religion to exercise their religious\faith rights. Don't Christians have right to refuse to participate in an event they found sinful and agqainst God's will. Would you support a law forcing someone to participate in a demon ceremony?
2. How far do we go not protecting our rights as Christian to show love to the homosexual community? Do we sit back and let them pass laws forcing our pastors perform homosexual marriage? If not, then why force a Christian photographer or bakery participate in a service against his\her belief? Would we not standd against a law force Muselim woman not wear their head gurard?
3. Please please go study the existing law in Arizona (1999 AZ Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA)). This law already allow people to refuse service for any reason ie if you think the person is ungly, their outfit does not match, black, white, gay, straight. The new law actually tighten that law and makes it hard to refuse services, so the new law actually stop discrimination while preserving the religious\faith right of others .
YES. Lovelyn. My chest feels tight and I am embarrassed not to have spoken up, afraid to speak up, too clumsy to speak up publicly. Ah!!!! God smiles and blesses ME through you.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read any comments yet but YES. You got it right and I love this post. Standing Ovation!
ReplyDelete